Strickland doesn't like McFlys because no McFly has ever amounted to anything in the history of Hill Valley. George McFly has no confidence and allows others to walk all over him. Thirty years later, his son Marty has no respect for the rules. He doesn't like Biff Tannen because he's a bully and his ancestor killed his grandfather. Maybe.
In 1885, at the end of the gunfight between Marty and Buford Tannen, "Mad Dog" is arrested for robbing the Pine City stagecoach. He was arrested by the Deputy Marshall. But haven't you ever wondered where Marshall Strickland was? Why wouldn't the Marshall be there to make the arrest himself? Well, it's not in the final film, but there is a deleted scene from Part Three where Buford Tannen shoots Marshall Strickland in the back.
The scene was removed because it was deemed too dark for a comedy. It was also removed because the filmmakers thought that the murder of a lawman would most likely result in Buford's execution. If Buford Tannen was executed, he wouldn't produce any offspring and therefore no future Biffs would be born. In a single universe/single timeline, his arrest for the robbery would stand to correct any error in timeline continuity.
But it is part of the story. It just wasn't featured. There was only one witness, that being Marshall Strickland's son. Quite possibly word had not yet reached the Deputy Marshall in Hill Valley. This justifies the reasoning for the Deputy Marshall making the arrest and the charge being the robbery of the stagecoach.
However, this is the third 1885. The first being the original, unaltered 1885. The second was altered by the existence of Doc Brown. The third 1885 was altered by Marty and the Doc. As far as we can know, the murder of Marshall Strickland by Buford Tannen never occurred in the first two universes. The only reason Tannen was on his way in to town that day was to shoot Marty in the gunfight. The only reason the Marshall rode out to meet Tannen was to stop him from having a gunfight with Marty.
Marty McFly is the reason Strickland's ancestor was murdered. In the original 1885, he may have been just a stagecoach robber and town menace. In the second 1885, he murders Doc Brown over a matter of $80. Because of Marty's existence in the third 1885, Tannen murders a lawman. Because of this, he may have been executed. The filmmaker's explanation for the omitted scene is irrelevant. There are no future Biffs.
Once Marty finishes his time travel to his final 1985, the third created and the fourth overall, we never see another Biff. We never explore this 1985 very far, but it is very possible there are no Biffs. Needle's there, sure. Potentially two Martys, two Jennifers, and another Doc and DeLorean. And potentially a Biff if Buford was able to procreate before his death.
We know Marshall Strickland had a son. So Principal Strickland might be around, too. He just might really dislike Clint Eastwood movies.
Well reasoned, unfortunately for the theory there is a Biff in 1985 version 4. Before Marty goes to get Jennifer, Biff is "just finishing up the second coat now" and comments that Marty has gone cowboy.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't too big of a problem for continuity, though. It's still quite possible that Tannen already has a son (or daughter who could in turn have had an illegitimate son and given him her maiden name), or that the mother is already pregnant at the time of Strickland's murder.
ReplyDeleteOne other nitpicky thing: if we can trust Doc's understanding of the space-time continuum, there is definitely not two Jennifers, since he previously explained that altering the past will cause 1985A to "instantaneously transform around Jennifer".
ReplyDeleteIt is possible that there are two Martys and two Docs, but it is very unlikely because that means there would have been two Martys when Marty returned to 1985 in the original movie. There is no evidence of this.
The likely explanation is that in the BTTF universe, there is only one you. Two different versions of the same person cannot exist; rather, if you alter your past, YOU are altered. It doesn't create a new version of you, with you yourself remaining exactly the same. This is consistent with the first and second movie:
1. Marty himself begins to disappear because of something he did to his own past
2. Two Martys and two Docs exist in 1955 briefly, but they are not two different versions of Marty and Doc. They are the same version, just at different times (the "other Marty" is the same Marty, but several hours to a day or so younger than Marty; the "other Doc" is the same Doc, but 30 years younger than Doc).
There are two Martys in Part 1 of the trilogy. After Marty returns to 1985, he arrives five minutes earlier than planned to buy him time to warn Doc. He arrives at the (now) Lone Pine Mall just in time to see Doc shot anyway. He then watches himself escape in the DeLorean from the Libyans and eventually disappear into time somewhere. So there is your evidence for that theory.
ReplyDeleteAs for the single universe time travel where there can be multiples of a single entity occupying the same time, I'll be posting a blog about the plausibility of that very soon. And why it cannot be so.
Thanks for your response. :) I love this movie and enjoy talking about it. To be clear, what I am addressing below is the idea that it is possible for there to be two Marty's (and two Jennifers, and two Docs) in the final version of 1985 we see at the end of Part III. Based on the rules established in the BTTF universe, this is extremely unlikely based on what we know from Doc's description of what happens to the present when the past is altered ('instantaneously transform(s) around').
ReplyDeleteIf we were able to inspect his memory at the end of III, we would find that in Marty's past experience he has never existed on Sunday, October 27th, 1985 at 11:00 a.m. Therefore, in order for there to be two Martys in 1985 version 4, either:
A. A future Marty is visiting 1985
B. There is another Marty that was spun out by the newest version of 1985 created as a result of all the changes to the timeline previously made.
I assume A is not what you meant by 'Potentially two Martys', so I am assuming you mean B. Let's see if two Marty's at the end of Part 1 is evidence of B.
Yes, there are two Marty's in Part 1 at the point you are talking about, but it is NOT two versions of Marty. It is the SAME Marty, just at different points in Marty's personal timeline. Marty is watching the events that unfolded before he left. It is the exact same as if he were to go back to the day he was born and meet himself in the hospital; it is simply his one, single lifetime overlapping with itself.
When I said:
'It is possible that there are two Martys and two Docs, but it is very unlikely because that means there would have been two Martys when Marty returned to 1985 in the original movie. There is no evidence of this.'
I am talking about point B.
If there is another Marty and another Jennifer at the end of III, where would they have come from? Mary left 1985, and returned. Jennifer stayed, and the world "instantaneously transform(ed) around" her.
Now like I originally said, according to the Doc's rules it is still possible there are two Martys (it is NOT possible there are two Jennifers) because Marty was not in 1985 when the changes took place, so the universe did not transform around him. But there is still no evidence for that theory. The ending of Part I is not evidence for it.
Okay. So I'm getting the feeling you haven't read all the blogs I have posted. The things I have written here about "Potentially two Marty's..." is a reference to previous postings. Please read the posts "A Tale of Two Martys" and "The Act of Universal Transcendence" where I have gone into much greater detail than I had written here, for the simple sake of brevity. And please read all the postings and help me flesh out these theories. Sounds like you know your BTTF. Looking forward to your thoughts. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteYou're right I have not read those other posts. I'll be sure to do that.
ReplyDeleteRead them. Enjoyed them a lot.
ReplyDeleteSimply put, I think the multiverse framework is completely unworkable in the BTTF universe- for many reasons, some of which you have hit upon yourself in those other posts.
The key to understanding the physics of BTTF time travel is Doc's statement that the universe would instantaneously transform around Jennifer and Einstein after he and Marty have fixed the past. Assuming Doc knows what he is talking about, this means there is no multiverse. There is ONE universe. It can be altered, though it seems that if you become displaced from your native timeframe, you will retain all the memories of your past experiences in an unaltered form. So, Marty is the only being to remember the original, unaltered timeline before time travel was invented in the first place. He became "unstuck", as it were, from THAT timeline (though he may or may not be permanently unstuck... I'll get to in a minute).
This idea of becoming displaced, or unstuck, from your native timeframe seems to be key, and to be NECESSARILY TRUE if we take Doc's statement about universe transformation at face value. Examples: When Marty changes the past in Part I, nobody has any memories of the original 1985. But when Biff changes the past in Part II, Marty, Doc, Jennifer and presumably Einstein (Einstein is a really weird problem- Doc left him in suspended animation, traveled back in time to get Marty, then comes back to 2015 and Einstein is still in the kennel waiting for him...?) do NOT have their memories altered. What is different about them as compared to everyone else? They have all been previously displaced from their native timeframe. When Marty (and later, Doc) come back from 1885, Jennifer remembers going to 2015, and we can safely assume she remembers 1985 version 2 as well (as does Einstein), but nobody else will remember 1985 version 2. They only remember version 4. What is different about Jennifer and Einstein? They are displaced from there original timeframe.
This solves many problems, but not everything. There are still the matters of:
ReplyDelete1. Future Biff remembering the day the Delorean flew into the air and disappeared, but future Marty and Jennifer being totally oblivious of the visitation of their past selves
This could be explained by the fact that Marty and Jennifer are now "unstuck" from their native timeframe (Marty having been previously displaced, Jennifer becoming displaced at the point they travel to 2015). Biff has not become unstuck from his timeframe. The evidence, therefore, is that there is something different about a person who is displaced from their native timeframe, and since anyone traveling to the future is displaced by definition, this difference will affect them.
(I'm still fleshing out this whole idea. A problem with it is that when Einstein became the world's first time traveler, he did not meet a future version of himself, yet Mary and Jennifer do. Shouldn't they have disappeared from the timeline completely when going to the future? Oh well. On to problem #2.)
2. There is indirect evidence of the existence of a NEW Marty and a NEW Doc in 1985 version 3 (Biffland). We have a newspaper clipping of Doc being committed, and another Marty with an utterly different set of memories is known by the other residents of 1985v3 as being in boarding school.
So, if there is no multiverse (as Doc claims), how can we explain this evidence for multiple versions of the same persons? I think there is only one explanation here given the assumption that there is no multiverse.
For someone who has been unstuck or displaced from his native timeframe, there is something fundamentally different- in a physical sense- about being the one who altered the past VS someone else altering your own past (altering the past of a non-displaced person will simply result in the alteration of all his memories). What could the nature of this difference be so as to allow evidence of different Martys, Docs, Jennnifers, and Einsteins to exist?
ReplyDeleteIt could be that the Marty and Doc of 1985v3 were ERASED FROM EXISTENCE at some point (much the same way Marty was almost erased in Part I, but presumably Doc and his parents would have still remembered their interactions with him up to his erasure). So then, the PAST evidence of the existence of these alternates remains. You might argue that the picture of Doc being committed should have been erased just like the picture of Marty's siblings if this is true, but remember that Marty's photo of his siblings is FUTURE evidence of their existence, not PAST evidence. So there are not alternatve copies of themselves somewhere when Marty, Doc, Jennifer, and Einstein arrive in 1985v3.
Why would they become erased? Well here we finally get to my theory on this whole thing.
Because they are displaced persons, and their existence became FUNDAMENTALLY altered the moment in the time stream that they became a displaced person, there is not only something different about them, but the moment they became displaced is also different. It erected a sort of brick wall along the road of their existence; no matter what happens to their past from the action of another, as soon as they reach that moment, they are erased from existence. Perhaps a better illustration is an open pit instead of a wall- they literally fall into the chasm they ripped open when they displaced themselves from the space-time continuum in the first place. There CANNOT be multiple versions of a person in a non-multiverse, yet the unaltered version of Marty (for example) still exists as a result of being ripped out of his native timeframe. The universe has to correct this, much the same way as it has to correct the existence of Marty in 1955 when he caused himself to never have been born.
So, Marty's and Einstein's moments of original displacement are both sometime between 1am and 2am on October 26th, 1985. Doc's is later that same morning. Jennifer's is that afternoon. Biff's is the evening of Wednesday, October 21st 2015. Clara Clayton's is at some unknown point after September 7th, 1885.
Parenthetically: we don't have any way of knowing when Jules and Verne became displaced. And interestingly, being the offspring of at least one, perhaps two (depends on whether they were born before or after Clara traveled through time) displaced persons, and having never existed in any other version of the timeline prior to version 4, it is not at all clear what kind of rules apply to them. Can their very existence ever be put in danger in the same way as Marty endangerd his own existence? I doubt it. It is possible that their "special moment" is not the first time they traveled through time. Since they were not supposed to exist in the first place, they may not even have one! They are, in a a way, sort of invincible- immune from the sort of changes to the timeline that others existing in the original timeline are susceptible to.
Finally to get back to what I alluded to about being permanently displaced vs temporarily displaced.
ReplyDeleteWhen you travel through time, you continue aging. You experience the passage of "time", from your perspective, regardless of whether those experiences are in the past or the future. What I propose is that it MAY be possible to restore yourself back where you are supposed to be- to fill in that whole you ripped out of the space-time continuum. You wold do this by precisely calculating how much time has passed for you since you left your native timeframe, and you return to that native timeframe by arriving precisely at the moment you would currently be experiencing had you never left in the first place.
However, I HIGHLY doubt this would work. Primarily because of what we know about relativity; time and space are the same thing. So not only would you have to return to the same TIME, you also would have to return to the exact same PLACE- or position in space- as when you left. The two are not separable.
Of course, given the physical realities of BTTF time travel, it would be supremely difficult to return to the exact same position as when you left. Not only that, but your physical existence has been altered; you have lost skin cells, hair, sweat, etc, and all that stuff would have to return to your native present along with you in order to completely fill the hole. Then again, if a "hole" really is a good illustration for what I'm talking about, a few thousand hair- or cell-sized holes might not be a problem. Most of the hole is filled up. Instead of being erased completely, you might just get the equivalent of a cosmic haircut.